GoogleIt Mail IT Print IT PermaLinkWhy OpenNTF Mail Should Avoid Challenge-Response
12:01:13 PM

Vince wants me to explain why challenge-response is a bad way to deal with spam. He suspects it is because of the doubling of traffic. That's not it. Well, it's part of it, but it's not the main point. Others have expained this better than I can, but I will oblige with the three most important reasons.


First, Challenge-response is bad because spammers forge from and reply-to addresses. If a spammer sends you mail, and I recieve a challenge because the spammer forged my email address in the From header, then you are turning your problem into my problem. To put it very bluntly, you are aiding and abetting the spammers in their destruction of the usefulness of my inbox. Without my permission, you are costing me in bandwidth and attention. You're as bad in this respect as the spammers themselves. You are forcing me to filter your challenges.


A second consequence of sending challenges given that spammers forge addresses, and the second reason that challenge-response is a bad way to deal with spam is that if you're not on my white-list and I use challenge-response as my way of filtering messages, I'm going to send you a challenge right back in response to your challenge! So, Vince, it's not that challenge-response doubles the traffic. If challenge-response were deployed widely, it would often triple the traffic!


And the third reason challenge-response is bad because it is easy for spammers to defeat. All they have to do is find pairs of addresses that white-list each other. It's not hard at all to figure out ways of doing that with reasonably high probability of success. It's also not hard to figure out social engineering attacks that are likely to generate even more pairs of mutually white-listed addresses. And John Levine (see the last link above) takes this to its logical conclusion as follows:


So what will the effect of this be? You won't be able to trust that mail from your friends is actually from your friends, since an increasing fraction will be spam leaking through your challenge system. What will people do? Given the basic principle of challenge systems, which is that it's someone else's job to solve your spam problem, people will dump their whitelists and start challenging every message. At this point, it's possible to automate much of the work, most challenge systems are scriptable, so that for example I have a few lines in my mail sorting filters that catch the per-message challenges from submissions to Dan Bernstein's mailing lists and automatically send confirmations. But of course, if I can send responses from scripts, spammers can and will too, so challenge systems will increasingly include "prove you're human" features like showing you a picture and asking you how many kittens are in it. Now we'll have challenge systems duelling to the death, since everyone will be insisting that everyone else confirm first. There should be ways to mitigate the damage, by using a mechanism other than e-mail for the challenge traffic, but I don't see anyone deploying them or even thinking about what a world where everyone challenges e-mail will be like.


So anyway, you heard it here first, challenge systems will destroy e-mail as we know it. Yeah, this sounds apocalyptic, but the pieces are all falling into place, and spam problems consistently get worse faster than anyone expects.


A white-list is an excellent anti-spam tool, but challenge-response is a terrible way to maintain a white-list. It's just plain inconsiderate. If scaled up to wide-scale deployment, it actually makes the problem worse for everyone, not better. It just doesn't work. So that's why OpenNTF Mail Experience should not do challenge-response.

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Comments :v

1. Chris Linfoot07/21/2006 05:08:53 AM
Homepage: http://chris-linfoot.net


Amen to that.

Please OpenNTF guys - listen and understand. C/R is a falt out terrible idea. Just don't go there.

Incidentally, we blacklist systems that send spurious C/R here. This happens fairly often. I've never seen a real C/R as a result of an email I have sent.

Many blacklists also list C/R sending systems and so, while C/R may cut down on your inbond spam for a short while until the bad guys defeat it (hint: null sender envelopes might make an interesting start), your outbound deliverability will suffer.




2. Chris Whisonant07/21/2006 08:32:14 AM
Homepage: http://cwhisonant.blogspot.com


I have a friend who used Earthlink (I believe) and it has a C/R system at one point. I received a C/R to a memo I sent hem.




3. Richard Schwartz07/21/2006 11:29:26 AM
Homepage: http://www.rhs.com/poweroftheschwartz


@2 Chris: I've heard that Earthlink does challenge-response. Another reason not to like them.

The truth, though, is that if you use challenge-response as a last resort, after messages have gone through extensive heuristics to see that they don't appear to be spoofed and content analysis indicates that they're probably not spam, then challenge-response is marginally acceptable -- though why not just deliver those messages?? Putting it in the hands of end-users to configure via their mail template, on the other hand, regardless of whether or not they have a strong front-end scanning system in place... that's just not a good idea.




4. Stu Downes07/21/2006 03:54:06 PM
Homepage: http://www.sdownes.co.uk


I have to agree. Filter the spam, don't spam the genuine sender




5. Bastian Wieczorek07/21/2006 06:47:30 PM
Homepage: http://www.lntoolbox.com


A whitelist would be very nice... but not a C/R system. I mean the spamer send me a mail, maybe he found it on a blog and then my system does a autom. replay. And now the spamer has a valid eMail adress to send me the "full power of spam".




6. Todd Phillips07/26/2006 02:27:08 PM


I agree with you 100%. I have had two of my domains hijacked by spammers and for every piece of spam I get, I get 10 more rejections from other mail systems. I have so many filters setup on my personal mail client, it takes about five minutes just send/receive mail.

I just wish there was something practical I could do about it.




7. Ben Bederson01/03/2007 05:14:55 PM
Homepage: http://www.cs.umd.edu/~bederson/user-advocate/index.html


I wrote a lengthy response to this here: http://www.cs.umd.edu/~bederson/user-advocate/index.html
But in summary, I disagree in practice (not in theory) for now, because:

Concern #1. Spammers will forge mail to me with someone else's return address thus sending my challenge to the poor forgee's email box.

Looking at the actual spam I receive, the vast, vast majority has false return addresses. And of the legitimate ones, most of those very likely come from spambots running on machines that have been infected. The owner of those machines have a lot more serious problems than deleting my challenge to them. In fact, it may tip them off to the fact that they are infected. And of the few third party legitimate emailers who get my unwanted challenges, I apologize. But that is still a tiny, tiny fraction of the total spam in the world. I'll gladly stop when there are better solutions. And I won't get mad if I occasionally get unwanted challenges from others (which I do, and which is a tiny, tiny minority of the total spam I receive).

Concern #2. If a challenge-response person emails me, then both our systems will challenge each other, generating even more email traffic.

So what. We each accept each other's challenges and we're done. We only have to do this once per person. And again, this one-time extra 2 emails is so tiny in the wide world of spam, that it is a totally irrelevant argument.

Concern #3. Challenge-response systems are easy to defeat since all someone has to do is forge the From address as someone that I already trust.

This is the easiest to respond to. Yes, in theory this is true, but in practice, spammers don't know who I trust. And in the past 4 days, I have received 4,491 emails of which 165 have been classified as good. Of those, about 30 were spam, but all of those spam were sent through mailing lists that I trust, not from forged From addresses. This does bring up a legitimate problem which is that popular mailing lists may become targetted as spoofed return addresses. But again, in practice, this has not happened yet. So I'm not going to avoid using a system because it theoretically might not work at some point in the future.

The bottom line is that challenge-response systems are not perfect, and probably won't work as well if everyone uses them. But for now, they work much, much better than anything else short of a human spam deleter (now there's a good business opportunity!). And if they stop working better than alternatives, then I'll switch to whatever works better.




8. Mike09/02/2008 10:46:37 AM


I don't know why Notes simply doesn't just use the synchronised contact list as a whitelist, with everything else going into the $Junk folder.
As I update my contact list the whitelist would inherently be updated too




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